Mystery Pictures Page 2
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This is an photo of an unknown sub with supplies on the deck, In the centre O 10 and in the background O 9. In the foreground, smoking a cigarette, J.H. van Bastelaar. During WWII J.H. is lost on board the O 20. Den Helder, 1935 or about. Note the cover on the net cutter and the hanging escape mask / smoke hood. (Photo: © L. van Bastelaar).
Please email the webmaster at email@example.com if you have more details on the unidentified sub, know an more exact date or know more (type/brand/name) about the escape mask / smoke hood.
Mystery picture #19: Dutch Submarine
Photo of an unknown Dutch submarine. The deck looks like the deck of a K XIV or O 21 class submarine. The stump (listening gear perhaps) on the deck could indicate that it is a K XIV class submarine. This photo was given to Dennis Clugston his mother in law by Willem Cornelis Rommers during World War II in Australia. (Photo: © Collection D. Clugston).
Please email the webmaster at firstname.lastname@example.org if you can identify this submarine, know to what class this submarine belongs or know what the stump on the deck is for.
On 28 July Visje writes that he thinks it might be an K XIV class submarine because he saw photos of this class having the same 'dent' in the deck and the same stump on the deck. He also thinks the stump is some equipment that was installed in the US.
In Aug 2002 Aart Hopman writes: The Mystery picture is K XIV, K XV had goalposts and double wiring from goalposts to the bridge. The box visible mounted forward on deck is the sonar, installed in Philadelphia naval yard. The boats had no sonar in Indonesia, only listening equipment, port and starboard.........goalposts are not a good idea at all, it gives an attacker the possibility to guess your heading.
Photo of an unknown Dutch submarine. Standing on deck at the far right is P.A. Melieste. The photo is probably taken in the late 1910's early 1920's. (Photo: © Collection P. Melieste).
Please email the webmaster at email@example.com if you can identify this submarine, know to what class this submarine belongs or have any other information regarding this photo.
Mystery picture #17: Norwegian ship
Zeeleeuw (2) next to an unidentified Norwegian ship. Oslo, sometime between 26 and 30 Oct 2001. (Photo: © Hr.Ms. Zeeleeuw website).
Please email the webmaster at firstname.lastname@example.org if you can identify this Norwegian ship.
In Nov 2004 Geoff B.L. and ships photographer M. Declerck both confirm this is indeed the Royal Norwegian Yacht KNM Norge.
In July 2003 Marius Skoie writes: ....This is a picture of the Norwegian royal yacht "Norge". And it looks like its laying in Oslo harbour right next to "Akershus fortress". I know this because I was serving in the "Norwegian Royal Guard" in the fall of 2001. We had guards standing at "Akershus" and when we patrolled during the night we could look down on the ship "Norge". This ship is often used by the royal family....
Later in 2002 Jan De Kloe, Ivar Eeg Nielsen, Conny Thunlund, Eilert Nřttingnes, Henrik Pedersen and Knut Hanselmann report that the ship is the Norwegian Royal yacht Norge.
In Jan 2002 Dave Wright writes: "...this is the Norwegian presidential yacht Norge. She was originally the British yacht Philante, owned by Tom Sopwith (the aircraft manufacturer). During WW2 she was used by the Norwegian navy as an escort and was kept post war as a VIP ship. She is still on Norwegian naval list (pennant # A553) as Norway's royal yacht. She is the largest diesel yacht built in Britain (1800 tons). Built by Camper and Nicholson in 1937...."
Mystery picture #16: Walrus (1)
Walrus (1). We have no idea when or where this photo is taken. (Photo: © Collection: Keith Jameson).
Please email the webmaster at email@example.com if you have more information on this photo.
In Oct 2001 J. Lassaque writes: "The background is hardly visible, but it seems well to be Malta's Marsamxett harbour. The ship would be proceeding to sea from Manoel Isl."
Nov 2001: L. Henwood write: "The Sub is leaving Marsamxetto harbour from Malta, behind the sub is the Royal Navy submarine base of Lazaretto, Malta"
Tijgerhaai (1), date and place unknown. (Photo: © Saxon Fogarty).
Please email the webmaster at firstname.lastname@example.org if you have more information on this photo.
In Jan 2004 Karl Purser writes: ".......I have taken an interest in this because my grandfather worked on this slipway during WWII. This is definitely Fremantle, the orientation of the slipway (the slipway rails are still there) relative to the rock pier on the left (known as the "South Mole") and the lighthouse on the right is in its correct position as the rock pier known as the "North Mole" in Fremantle......."
In Aug 2003 E. Seubert writes: ".....don't like to disagree with H.M. van der Veen. However the port is definitely Fremantle, and the year I would say is 1946. Please note the attached images:
Photo of USS Childs in Fremantle Harbour 1943. Take note of chimney in the background used by Fremantle Harbour Trust (Port Authority) and buildings to the right of chimney used by United States Navy during wartime. (Photo: © Collection E. Seubert).
Photo of Tijgerhaai (1) on the Fremantle slipway, 1946. Take note of the colour of the jumpers the men are wearing.
(Photo: © Collection E. Seubert).
Jan 2002: According to submariner H.M. van der Veen this is not Fremantle but the Nieuwe Waterweg in Rotterdam. He also raises a question about the white jumpers the men are wearing. Normally these where only worn by the British Royal Navy.
Oct 2001: According to 'Visje' this photo is taken in Fremantle sometime during world war II.
Mystery picture #14: Plate
We have no info at all on this plate, We only have this photo.
Do you know when it was made, for what occasion, who received one etc etc ? Then please email the webmaster at email@example.com.
Mar 2002: A Dutch Submariner writes that he suspects that this plate is a redesigned version of the plate that commemorated the Submarine Service' 75 anniversary and is used as a general Submarine Service gift.
July 2004: J. Klootwijk writes that he agrees this plate is to commemorate the Submarine Service' 75 anniversary. He inherited a similar plate from his grandfather, torpedomaker W. Snel. This plate does have the years 1906 - 1981 written upon it.
Note from the webmasters: Since these plates are still very different the original question seems still unanswered.
Mystery picture #13: Lieutenant at the periscope
Jan Visser located this photo in various publications. The officer is apparently a Lieutenant ( Luitenant-ter-zee der 2de klasse ).
Any idea who this is and where/when this photo was taken ? Then please email the webmaster at firstname.lastname@example.org.
In Dec 2004 Herman Warmink (GO man RDN on Hr.Ms. Walrus and Hr.Ms. Zeeleeuw from 1954 - 1959) writes: "....mystery picture # 13 is indeed used for promotion. I found it on the cover of "Periscoop Op". This booklet is published in 1945 and describes the war history of the Royal Dutch Submarine Service during world war II. It is published in Londen (in Dutch) and the revenue was intended for charity....."
In Mar 2002 W.H.J. Haase writes: "This is a photo of Ltz. II Pieter Bussemaker".
In Feb 2002 Joep Frijdal writes that the Ltz. II is Pieter Bussemaker and that the photo is taken for promotional purposes.
In Jan 2002 Jan De Kloe reports that the officer is Piet (Pieter) Bussemaker.
Mystery picture #12: Float plane
These photos (click here for the complete series) are probably taken in the Dutch East Indies sometime in the 1930's and show a Fokker C-VII-W floatplane being loaded on board the Dutch Submarine K XV.
Why was the plane transported on a sub ? Was this done regularly ? When ? How was it exactly done etc etc . . . . If anyone has more info please email the webmaster at email@example.com.
On 4 Apr 2002 Mohd Fuaad writes: ". . .really make me wonder at first on how the men could walk on water and fetch the floatplane with the submarine so close by! I agree with you as it was impossible for the sub to float in such a shallow water. I also keep thinking about how they could put the plane on the sub without using any lifting equipment! After thinking about it, I guess this was really what happened. First, they towed the plane to be next to the sub. Then, the sub fill it ballast ( a little) so that the bow was under water of several feet, thus, allowing the men to walked to the plane. Next, they pushed the plane onto the bow and straight the plane up facing the front of the sub. Finally the sub was raise by blowing its ballast and ...there you have it, the plane was now on the sub. . . "
Note from the webmaster: Of course Mohd is right. I always thought the men were in the water, but they are actually walking on the deck. It is quite surprising that until now everybody mist that little fact ;-))
On 28 Sep 2001 Bill Devins, Leader of the Seaplane Special Interest Group, writes: " . . . .I suspect it was a trial mating of seaplane and submarine. A number of countries experimented with this mélange during and after WW I. In 1915 the German submarine U 12 carried a Friedrichshafen FF 29 seaplane lashed athwartships which it launched by submerging by the bow, leaving the aircraft to attack the English coast. A number of attacks, reaching as far as London, were accomplished. The English E-22 once carried a couple of Schneider seaplanes out into the Channel to give them a leg up on intercepting Zeppelin attacks. [Days later, when the E-22 was sunk, the survivors were found clinging to the wooden aircraft launch rails.] As recovering a launched aircraft, especially one of these relatively flimsy biplanes, was an almost impossible task on the high seas, recovery options were limited. U 12's and E-22's charges were to return to a seaplane base. I suspect that the K XV / C VII W erection depicted was done under controlled conditions. The Dutch were likely trying to determine the feasibility of carrying and subsequently launching the seaplane from the sub. Although I've done a lot of research into this subject, this is the first I've heard of Dutch experiments in this area..."
Mystery picture #11: Oxygen generator
This photo is from the collection of Joop Jaspers. All he knows about this oxygen generator is that it probably comes from a Dutch submarine. It could very well be a British or an US oxygen generator since ex-US (Guppy) and ex-British (H and T class) boats were once part of the Dutch submarine force. Do you know on what submarine (Dutch and/or foreign) this type of oxygen generator was used, or if you can tell more about how it works then please email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Apr 2005: Phil Rody, CPO ret. 1st class, RCN writes: "Just looking at that picture. Not sure what Dutch boats carried it, but it looks like a Mk 6, which was carried on the Canadian Oberons, Okanagan, Onondaga, Ojibwa, which have since been replaced with the Upholder Class. "
Dec 2002: Ian Steel writes: "....The oxygen Generator pictured is from the British Fleet and is still used in most British boats, though they are changing over to a different design. I attach a photo that shows a burned candle in the breech of the generator. Molecular Products are a manufacturer of oxygen candles for submarine use for a number of the World's Navies..."
Nov 2001: Sandy Nelson writes: "This type of O2 Generator was also used on Australian O Boats".
July 2001: William Van Den Berge writes: "I am a Canadian Submariner and we use the same O2 generator. It is also in the British submarines. The way it works is you unscrew the lower breech and lower it down. Insert an unburnt candle and raise and shut the breech. At the very top is a firing pin. Unscrew the firing pin and you will be able to insert a .410 cartridge. Rescrew on the firing pin and bang down on the firing pin on with your hand That fires the cartridge and starts the candle. There are two chambers on the side. The first chamber holds the filter to remove burnt particles that would leave the candle and then pass through a lower section filled with charcoal. The second chamber is where the filtered air passes up through a tube. In the tube is a little ball as light a ping pong ball and that will bounce as the air is passing through. You will know the generator is running when you hear the ball bouncing. The average candle lasts for about one hour.
Apr 2001: Dave Kohli writes: "It looks just like the ones in the Oberon Class SSK's that Canada has been using since the mid 60's. Drop a canister in it, use a 410 cartridge and bang it produces 100 litres or so of O2. I would say it's British Origin."
March 2001: Hagar writes: "If you look closely on the label plate, it is a super fancy oxygen candle furnace. The bottom hatch is probably to drop out hot clinkers, the two canisters are interesting, I think one at least is an after filter for the candle outlet. Is it round or is it cut in half? US versions were a lot different and more utilitarian. The other canister might be how they started the candles initially, we now use nails and rub the top of the igniter."
March 2001: Wally B. writes: "The picture of the Oxygen Generator is very much like the one we had on S/M Subtle '52. You opened the bottom, the base plate had an Electric Element, you inserted what looked like a cylindrical core of asbestos, closed it up, and it hissed away merrily. I doubt if it did much good anyway. It was supposed to work in conjunction with the 'Air Purifying Machine', Ha! Ha! Another diabolical machine. I will never forget that machine, I had the misfortune to draw the bunk underneath it. It leaked, and I wound up with oxygen poisoning."
March 2001: Nick writes: "Definitely U.K. type. We had them on the "T's" I served on "56-59"
March 2001: Scratcher writes: "It's a British oxygen generator. Probably came from Tijgerhaai or one of the other boats the Dutch navy had from Britain. Produces O2 through burning a sodium chlorate and iron filing compound moulded into a solid, cylindrical shaped "candle" with starter composition on one end. The burning process is started with an electric element in the top of the unit. The candle is inserted into the burning chamber through the bottom via the "breech" mechanism. The candle is simply inserted, the breech pushed home and locked. The starter is switched on and the burning process begins. The gauge shows green when O2 is being produced."
This undated periscope shot is probably taken by Zeehond (3), possibly during one of the Fish-Play operations.
Some sources state it is a Russian sub, but this seems unlikely since it looks like this photo has been taken from the surface and according to several viewer comments the silhouette does not really match any Russian submarine (..or does it?). Some people even suggested the image is a fake, but comparison with images Foxtrot-1 and Foxtrot-2 looks like a match to me........please comment.
Do you have any additional info or opinions on this photo, then please email us at email@example.com.
In Jan 2006 Blair Shaw writes: "....the submarine in the picture is project 641 nato code named Foxtrot it is a diesel electric attack submarine produce from 1960's to the 80's 62 were built untill production was cut when the sucsessor the project 641B tango was bought in.....I cannot deem this shot as fake I think it is genuine and there is nothing unusual about seeing a Russian Foxtrot on the surface between 1962-1988 it was a very common sight, so yeah I think it is genuine..."
In Jan 2005 Dennis Fearry writes: "....This photo `taken through periscope' - is probably incorrect. Most / all photo's taken through scope's show a jagged/rough/serrated edge, because of the view having to pass thro the two prism's. The photo is more likely taken by an aircraft, or even through the porthole of a surface ship, which is unlikely `rusky boat' would not have been caught on surface - by an aircraft more is more likely.
March 2003: B. Reynolds writes: "...definitely a Soviet Foxtrot Class SS. I flew on many of these subs in the 80s as a sensor operator on P-3 aircraft, and that is definitely a Foxtrot..."
Mar 2001: A former member of the Netherlands Navy "sectie herkenning" (recognition department) writes that he identifies this submarine as a Russian Foxtrot. He does not see any evidence that this image is a fake.
O 24's crew. Place, date and occasion unknown (Photo: © Collection Harald Sannes).
Please email us at firstname.lastname@example.org if you have any additional details.
Jan 2004: Jan Maarten Doorman writes (translated by web team): "The man on the right is indeed Sbn. G.W. Stöve. I am 100% sure because I have many photos of him. These photo's were taken during the change of command of the squadron from him to my grandfather in June 1940."
Jan 2002: According to Jan De Kloe and H.M. van der Veen the officer on the left (facing right) is H.M. van der Veen and the officer in the middle is Piet de Jong. The photo is taken in march/april1946 in Gibraltar or Rotterdam after O 24's return from the East. On the right probably Schout bij Nacht Stöve.
Nov 2001: Jan Johannes Thomas, (Ltz. I KMR on board O 24) writes that the officer in the middle is probably Piet de Jong. Jan thinks the photo is taken in the second half of WWII, or after WWII.
Mystery picture #8: Frans Clauzing
Frits de Graaff is op zoek naar oud marinemensen die zijn vader gekend hebben: Hendrikus Fransiscus Clauzing oftewel Frans Clauzing (bijnaam Claus), geboren te Voorburg op 18-Aug-1929. Hij heeft vermoedelijk gediend bij de Onderzeedienst in de periode 1947 - 1953 en gevaren op een van de O-boten. (O 21, O 23, O 24 of O 27). Hij was korporaal seiner. Wie heeft hem gekend en weet op welke boot hij heeft gevaren?
Frits de Graaff is looking for people that were acquainted with his father: Hendrikus Fransiscus Clauzing or Frans Clauzing (nickname Claus), born in Voorburg on 18-Aug-1929. He probably Serviced in the Submarine Service between 1947 - 1953 on board some of the O-boats (O 21, O 23, O 24 of O 27). He was a corporal signalmen. Who knew his father or knows on what boat he was stationed?
Please contact: email@example.com and firstname.lastname@example.org if you have any information.
Mystery picture #7: Clock
One of the visitors of this website would like your help to identify this clock / chronometer. According to the seller this clock is from a Dutch Zwaardvis (1) class ( former U.K. T-class ) submarine. It probably is a so called torpedo clock which was used to time the number seconds needed for a 'hit' after firing a torpedo. The diameter of the white front plate is 20 cm, there is also a small clock in the middle. It is a so called 12 day clock made by Smith-Astral (U.K.).
If you can identify this type of clock, know what other boats used this type of clock, know where the clock is normally situated then please email us at email@example.com.
Jan 2000: Dutch submariner John Wolf writes: "As far as I can remember, this clock was used in the radar-room of the Zwaardvis (1) class. When an Echo was reported every 3 minutes from the Radar set it had to be marked down on the plotting board, That's why the minutes are superimposed on the clock."
Mystery picture #6: Torpedo wake
This picture is provided by Nick Kuyper. The image could be a periscope photo (probably O 27) of a torpedo wake. But what is the piece of "timber" that is visible ? Do you have more info about this image then please email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Feb 2004: Stefan writes" "...I think this is the picture of a submarine that fires a torpedo with the aft tubes..."
Jan 2000: Jim Mandelblatt (webmaster of the Periscope Shots homepage) writes: "It looks like the periscope camera also caught part of the hull...methinks the torpedo came from the stern tube of the sub...and what you're seeing in the bottom right of the photo is the stern of the boat (but I could be wrong...)"
Mystery picture #5: Glass dome
On +/- 21 Dec 1941 the K XVII is struck by a mine while she is exiting the Gulf of Siam. The submarine and all of her 36 hands are lost. John S. Moderate took several photos of the wreck
Can anyone explain the 'glass dome' on top of the retracted forward scope. A tiny bit of the ball is visible but the major part of it is covered in sh**. The aft scope has the same kind of dome. Some people suggested it is a light or some kind of lens to search the sky for airplanes. Please email us at email@example.com if you know more about the 'glass dome'.
Jan 2000: Dutch submariner Philip v/d Veen writes: "This K XVII dome is the cover glass of the navigation periscope. This could be positioned vertically to observe the sky."
Mystery picture #4: HMS Ambrose
King George VI and the present Queen Mother on a visit to HMS Ambrose in 1941. It is taken outside the main door at the former Lindsay and Low jam factory in Caledon Street. The building still stands much as it was in 1941, although the rail lines were lifted a couple of years ago. Captain Roper is at right. The Queen is speaking to a Dutch officer (it seems) who has just been decorated.
If anyone can identify the Dutch officer (red question mark), knows when this photo was taken, or has any other information about this photo, then please email us at firstname.lastname@example.org
16 June 1999: Jan Visser emailed evidence that "proved" the Dutch officer is C. Hellingman, on 18 Aug 2000 Ineke Hellingman (grand daughter of C. Hellingman) confirmed this. She also wrote that on this occasion her grandpa was awarded the DSO.
This photo, from the collection of Andrew Jeffrey, is taken in Dundee during WWII, probably 1940/41. Facing the camera Capt. William Keay (#3), Dundee Royal. Naval Reserve commander. The Polish officer at Keay's right hand is the famous Romanowski (#2). The name of the RN Commander left of Keay is unknown.
Thanks to Jan De Kloe some more officers are identified: #1 is Ltz. I D.Th baron Mackay, #5 is Ltz. I J.F. van Dulm. He also reports the photo is probably taken in Dec 1941.
In June 2002 Fred reports that officer #4 is probably the new Commander 9th S/M Cdr H.V. King, he took over the 9th in Dec 1941.
If anyone can identify officer #4, knows when this photo was taken, or has any other information on this photo. Please email us at email@example.com
Mystery picture #2: Group of Dutch Submariners in WWII
Group of Dutch Submariners in WWII. The buildings they used at Crawley (Perth), were this picture is taken, for their headquarters is now the very swanky Royal Perth Yacht Club. It is also possible this picture was taken at the Royal Freshwater Yacht Club which is in Perth (Photo: © Western Australian Maritime Museum).
If anyone knows when, where this picture was taken, knows what is written on the blackboard, or knows who are in the picture, then please email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
J. De Kloe reported the photo is taken 'around 1945' and that the barracks were at the campus of the Perth University, about a 20 minute drive by car from the harbour.
Mystery picture #1: Turkish submarine
This is either the Turkish submarine Birinci Inönü / Birindji-In-Uni or the Ikinci Inönü / Ikindji-In-Uni (Photo: © FOTO-BUREAU "HELDER", Collection Jan Johannes De Kloe IV). These submarines were build by the Dutch for the Turkish Navy. Check out the IvS page for more information.
If anyone can identify this submarine as the Birinci Inönü or Ikinci Inönü please email us at email@example.com
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